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Post by felkman on Dec 13, 2011 23:10:46 GMT -4
No, she is not done yet, I hope to have her out this spring. Not really much to do, but finding the time to work on it is what's slowing it down. I just picked up a cb360 swingarm to put on it and one of these days I need to make a seat for it and do something with the fenders.
My father had BMWs when I was a kid and I think that is what got me hooked.
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swm686
Training Wheels
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Post by swm686 on Dec 16, 2011 1:23:19 GMT -4
Is your 450 still sputtering out after a few minutes riding? Are the plug porcelains snow white? Forget buying new, bigger jets. That ain't the problem.
I misspent my youth turning wrenches in various one lightbulb Honda repair shops. Replaced a bunch of fried pistons, mostly in 305 Superhawks and Scramblers. Also a few K0 450s if memory serves.
Took a while for the lightbulbs to go on. Problem turned out to be a blocked and undersized gas cap vent.
The gas caps back then were 90 degree turn types. Worked fine when new, but over time the sealing gasket (cardboard? leather?) squashed out radially and blocked the vent hole. No vent, no gas, lean mixture, pistons overheat, pistons seize. Harley had the same problem with some Evos.
Trim the gasket, drill the vent hole a few sizes larger (not all the way through the cap!), and you'll be fine.
At the risk of insulting your knowledge of that machine, kindly let me offer this further bit of advice. The 450 drains it's top end oil very quickly back into the sump. When you fire up the bike next week or next month, there will be no pressurized oil at the cams for about 30 seconds. Listen closely and you can hear when the oil arrives. The bike will sound all ticky-ticky at start up (like a loose cam chain). Keep the revs as low as possible until the rattling goes muted, like somebody put a pillow over the engine. Now you're ready to go. (I replaced a bunch of 450 cams and followers back in the day, too.)
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Post by felkman on Dec 16, 2011 10:21:45 GMT -4
Thanks swm686 for your thoughts on what may be the problem with my cb450. Having had that same problem with my gas cap on my 68 bmw while riding to Ohio Vintage days a couple years ago, that was my first thought. Sad to say that isn't the problem with the 450. The bike still died even with the cap off, not to mention, it is a NOS cap on there. I am guessing I have some rust or junk in the filter of the petcock. I have not found the time to go out and mess with it much.
Where were you for the first 10 times my BMW died before I figured out what the problem was with it. That was a long ride to mid Ohio having to stick my hand between my tank and tank bag to loosen my cap every 5 mins, while riding 75 mph down I-70. I was glad to find another cap at the swap meet before my ride home.
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swm686
Training Wheels
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Post by swm686 on Dec 17, 2011 1:07:44 GMT -4
Whaddaya mean where was I when your bike crapped out? You need a ride along grease monkey? Not me, not on that pillion seat.
In answer to your question, I was in my shop adding to my hemorrhoid collection rassling various engines in and out of frames all by my skinny lonesome self while you were enjoying that pleasant ride to Ohio and back. Don't seem bloody fair.
If the fuel cap is good, I'd have to agree with previous posters: check the fuel delivery path from tank to bowl. If the fuel lines have ever been left disconnected, look for evidence of mud daubers. Don't know how the little buggers find and fill every 1/4" hole, but they have caused me no end of trouble and aggravation.
Tip: to remove the float bowl, don't push/slide/rotate the retaining clip. Hard on the fingers. Just pull one dogleg end of the clip straight out of it's hole. Tension is released, clip rotates easily, bowl falls off. Doesn't work on installation.
Never heard of the CB350 swing arm trick. Put a CB500T swing arm on mine, about 2" longer. Good way to shove weight forward, but it adds to the bending at the pivot area of that crappy frame. Working on a solution.
With stock 15/35 gearing and 12 3/4" shocks, my chain scrapes the swing arm at full extension. Surely a sacrificial plastic slider can be whittled and installed.
Your 450 is a neat little bike. It's a vibrator, especially with lower than stock bars. Clip ons (no more rubber mounts) will put your hands to sleep in about five miles. Try removing the top motor mount before you give up and sell the thing.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2011 19:17:10 GMT -4
So I finally got my new rectifier from oregonmotorcycleparts.com, I also connected it to a heat sink from my pile of computer parts I have to keep it nice and cool. I switched the wires in the headlight bucket to keep the generator working full time instead of only while the brights are on. Looks like it is going to do the job for the charging. I took her for another ride and after about 3 minutes she started cutting out like it was starving for fuel. I am still waiting on some larger jets but I don't think that is the whole problem since it runs great when I first start it and if it sits for a couple of minutes after running badly, it starts right up and runs great again, well, for a couple minutes anyway. Must be a fuel problem. I guess I have to pull the carbs off again anyway to change out the jets when they get here. I was so hoping to have her at first Thursday tonight but.......... maybe next year! just another thought on the "after a few minutes" problem. I don't know your carbs, but I've had a similar problem with 2 other old bikes. the enrichener valve seal being dried out/compressed/worn, allowed fuel to pass all the time, which in turn made one bike die after it warmed, and caused the other bike to have 1 very rich carb. swapping out with better (used not new) ones cured both problems. in my bikes the seal was just a small rubber washer at the base of the plunger, pressed against a brass collar when closed. the collar indents the washer over time, and with age and rebuilds... well, the seal ain't what it used to be. I think this could often be a factor in pesky uneven air/fuel mixtures on old iron. |
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swm686
Training Wheels
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Post by swm686 on Dec 18, 2011 0:36:43 GMT -4
Isolato:
It's refreshing to come across someone who looks carefully and thinks clearly. Most guys would attempt to fix your tuning problem by installing larger main jets and SplitFire spark plugs.
Well done, friend. I'll file your thoughts in my memory bank, such as it is.
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Post by felkman on Dec 18, 2011 2:21:22 GMT -4
Isolato: It's refreshing to come across someone who looks carefully and thinks clearly. Most guys would attempt to fix your tuning problem by installing larger main jets and SplitFire spark plugs. Well done, friend. I'll file your thoughts in my memory bank, such as it is. That's funny swm686, so I guess when you change exhaust and air filters on a bike, you never needed to changed the jets?  |
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Post by cb500bobber on Dec 18, 2011 11:39:27 GMT -4
Felkman I did the air pods and 4 into 1 header on my bobber and I didn't increase my jets and it runs great
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Post by felkman on Dec 19, 2011 9:06:28 GMT -4
Felkman I did the air pods and 4 into 1 header on my bobber and I didn't increase my jets and it runs great Originally Honda used 130 jets in the earlier cb450 but in 1972 they changed the jets to 140 and it was recommended by Honda to up the jet size in the earlier models because the engines were running to lean. I upped the jets from 130 to 135 to start with and may up it again to 140 after I get a chance to do some plug checks. No, I did not ever think this was my problem with the bike suddenly starving for fuel, this is just something the Honda factory recommended in 72 and not to mention I now have different mufflers and pod filters. cb500bobber, I am glad that you had no issues with your engine and never had to change jets. Since my bike never had this done in 72, I felt this is something that should be done now! |
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swm686
Training Wheels
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Post by swm686 on Dec 19, 2011 13:40:03 GMT -4
I mess with carburetion when the bike tells me to, stock or modified. A surprising number of the old bangers we love are jetted lean off idle and rich on top straight from the factory. In the middle, who knows? Change something and see what happens.
Decades ago I breathed on my 750 SOHC Honda. 810cc, lots of compression, hairy cam, K&N pods, Kerker header. Spent days chasing jets, float heights, needle positions just for the education. Ended up with all stock settings except the main jets. One size down worked best. Daggone thing idled smoothly, pulled strong and clean through the rev range, and returned 50 mpg on trips. Back then we did plug chops and a lot of guessing. Now we have dynos and exhaust sniffers.
Felkman: sure want to get close to your R60 next spring. Looks tasty. Got a soft spot in my heart for those bikes. Two swing arms never lit my fuse, but that's why they made the US version.
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Post by cjkoschnick on Dec 20, 2011 15:59:10 GMT -4
Chris-
Looks great! I love the bar-end signals. Hope to use those on my next project.
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550fi
Junior rider
75 CB 550 F1,79 CM 400 A,72 CT 70 K1,Unknown ct 70 clone 05 GY6 scooter ,70 CT 70
Posts: 624
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Post by 550fi on Dec 28, 2011 16:12:47 GMT -4
I definitly like that bike a mix of old and older is cool.
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Post by slohand on Jan 10, 2012 18:49:59 GMT -4
I like it, your doing some nice work. I just bought a 68 CL 450 complete basket case with tons of extra parts. Filled my 8' truck box up with parts. As soon as I sort out what I need. I may have some extras if you need anything. Ron PICTURES SOON Ha,Ha
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Post by leadkrm on Jan 10, 2012 19:00:50 GMT -4
Dude I have a 68 cb450 so I may need parts too.
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Post by slohand on Jan 10, 2012 19:18:59 GMT -4
Cool, but I bet its not in as many Pisces as mine. But I did get lot of extra NOS, used and cb parts and two assembly manuals. Ron
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